A Love Letter to Arizona: Your Appointed Governor is a Coward

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An hour south of Tucson you’ll find deserted silver mines used to make Confederate bullets in the latter days of the Civil War. The settlers of the region tried and failed to gain the federal government’s protection for their business interests. They were at war with the Apache tribe and desperate to have federal troops present so they could excavate in a place named after the Aztec word for “silver-bearing.” The feds ignore them.

arizona immigration law
Cartoon by Mike Keefe – Denver Post (click to purchase)

The then-residents, numbering in the thousands, probably by counting everyone twice, decided to secede from the Union. So when Arizona cries foul at the federal government’s shortcomings, this time it’s not new territory.

In fact, everything about SB 1070, Arizona’s new ruthless immigration law signed last week seems refried. It’s the same bill Governor Janet Napolitano vetoed twice. It’s a three-peat of a bad idea. And it’s a political cliché: when the economy is struggling, scapegoat “illegals.” In 1994 California’s then-Governor Pete Wilson knew the drill: His notorious re-election commercials showed immigrants running over the border like invading pathogens and he got to appear responsive to voters’ fears.

What happens to illegal immigrants when the economy is thriving? Business owners adore them. They don’t have to pay them the whopping federally mandated minimum wage. Undocumented workers will never unionize. They will never sue. They are the perfect employees from a business owner’s perspective and that is why they continue to be employed in this country. They increase profit. They’re an endless resource – an exploitable subclass. Their legality is only an issue when attention needs to be drawn away from something else. Then “illegals” are a moral outrage. A sudden threat to national security! Why haven’t we had immigration reform since Ronald Reagan’s 1986 amnesty? Because in the boom times we love all the cheap labor.

But now it’s lean for Arizona. The recently appointed Governor Jan Brewer needs to (gulp) raise taxes. So in a cowardly kowtowing act of desperation she gave the rabid of her base what they want ““ a dramatic crackdown on the-people-easy-to-point-a-finger-at.

So the same people whose sweat and sacrifice assists the booms are going to get busted after the bust!?
Using vague and coded terms like “reasonable suspicion” the law enables police to pick up people who don’t look a certain way. What way? Governor Brewer told reporters after the signing ceremony she doesn’t know what an illegal immigrant looks like. Of course, she’s federally obligated to say she’s against racial profiling, which she offered like a disclaimer before realizing the opposite.

The next time you need a definition for the word “disingenuous” use the example of a governor of a state bordering Mexico creating a law to arrest those without proper identification being coy about what Mexicans without papers look like. The kicker was the Governor stating, “We have to trust our law enforcement.” The signing was spineless as it was witless. It’s like writing a law to ban teenagers but not having the cojones to define who they are. They wear different shoes. We’ll let the police just sort it out.

This isn’t leadership. It’s pandering. It’s vilifying the voiceless while setting up the police to catch blame for implementing an ambiguous decree ““ all the while terrorizing a third of Arizonians who are Latino. Weak. Cheap. Sniveling. Sycophantic.

As a state Arizona has always been a little kooky. It’s all personality: From Barry Goldwater to John McCain from Wyatt Earp to Sylvestor Mowry. The state is infamous for being the backdrop of the most romantic of American lore – the outlaw, the cowboy. It’s a state of unprecedented beauty with goofy politics and sun-baked passions. It’s all woven through with this defiant libertarian-leaning credo of letting people do their own thing.

Arizona hasn’t been a police state since the California Column confiscated all the land from the Confederate sympathizers. Way to break that run.

Unlike most who are calling for a boycott, I had two trips to Arizona planned this year. Regretfully, I have canceled them both. I would happily have paid the one percent increase in sales tax but I won’t give my tourist dollars to state sanctioned harassment. I hope the voters get better leadership but until that time, I’ll vote with my pocketbook.

“””“

Tina Dupuy is an award-winning writer , a columnist for Cagle Cartoons and the editor of FishbowlLA.com. Follow Tina on Twitter @TinaDupuy.

Want to run Tina’s column in your publication? Contact Cari Dawson Bartley. E-mail [email protected], (800) 696-7561.


Comments

81 responses to “A Love Letter to Arizona: Your Appointed Governor is a Coward”

  1. Syncopation Avatar
    Syncopation

    I'm going to go against my democratic leanings on this one.

    If you're in the country illegally, you should be deported.

    Doesn't have anything to do with race or any other status – except for the fact that you broke the law when you crossed the border.

    As far as asking people to prove their citizenship, well I don't mind having to do that. I'm caucasian (German/Russian background) and I think the only people that might be offended by having to show their id are those… that don't have it. Or have a fake one. And to be honest, I really don't care if they're offended if they're not supposed to be here in the first place.

  2. geoff Avatar

    Syncopation: "If you’re in the country illegally, you should be deported."

    I'd agree with that, if the people employing these folk were punished as well. Don't a whole lot of illegal immigrants work for companies or farmers willing to pay them under the table? If so, why should only the illegals be punished? they'll only be replaced by the next batch. Isn't it all a question of supply and demand? they supply the cheap labour needed by big farms and industry?

  3. Syncopation Avatar
    Syncopation

    I think it's illegal to employ an illegal migrant worker. So yes, I think those people should be punished too, in accordance with the law.

    The alternative is to make our borders transparent so that everyone can run willy nilly across them when they decide they don't like wherever they're at. No country in the world does that.

  4. Rob Avatar
    Rob

    A beautiful fairy appeared one day to a destitute Mexican refugee outside an Arizona immigration office.

    "Good man," the fairy said, "I've been sent here by President Obama and told to grant you three wishes, since you just arrived in the United States with your wife and eight children."

    The man told the fairy, "Well, where I come from we don't have good teeth, so I want new teeth, maybe a lot of gold in them."

    The fairy looked at the man's almost toothless grin and — PING !– he had a brand new shining set of gold teeth in his mouth!

    "What else?" asked the fairy, "Two more to go."

    The refugee claimant now got bolder. "I need a big house with a

    three car garage in Annapolis on the water with eight bedrooms for my family and the rest of my relatives who still live in my country. I want to bring them all over here" — and — PING !–in the distance there could be seen a beautiful mansion with a three car garage, a long driveway, a walkout patio with a BBQ in an upscale neighborhood overlooking the bay.

    "One more wish", said the fairy, waving her wand.

    "Yes, one more wish. I want to be like an American with American clothes instead of these torn clothes, and a baseball cap instead of this sombrero. And I want to have white skin like Americans" —and —PING!–The man was transformed – wearing worn out jeans, a Baltimore Orioles T-shirt and a baseball cap. He had his bad teeth back and the mansion had disappeared from the horizon.

    "What happened to my new teeth?" He wailed, "Where is my new house?"

    The fairy said:

    "Tough shit, Amigo, Now that you are a White legal American, you have to fend for yourself."

    AUTHOR UNKNOWN

  5. ReFlex76 Avatar
    ReFlex76

    *The fairy said:

    “Tough shit, Amigo, Now that you are a White legal American, you have to fend for yourself.”*

    When I see "White legal Americans" picking fruit for less than $10 an hour, I'll believe this!

  6. Syncopation Avatar
    Syncopation

    Poor Rob. So racist, so hateful, and I bet he doesn't even realize how ugly and offensive it is. I wonder what it's like to live in the dark? It can't be pleasant, but maybe he doesn't know any better.

  7. OMG! Avatar
    OMG!

    http://www.americanthinker.com/2010/04/the_arizon

    April 27, 2010

    The Arizona Uproar

    By Leo W. Banks

    Listening to the national uproar, you'd be forgiven for thinking that Arizona has marched into the civil rights apocalypse with its new state law cracking down on illegal immigrants.

    Last Friday, Arizona Governor Jan Brewer signed SB1070, making it a crime to be in the state illegally and requiring cops, where "reasonable suspicion" exists, to determine a person's legal status.

    Rev. Al Sharpton is promising to come to Arizona to march, the New York Times says that the state has gone "off the deep end," and the Nazi references are flying. Los Angeles Cardinal Roger Mahony likened SB1070 to "German Nazi and Russian Communist techniques."

    Riding the noise for political advantage, President Obama is summoning his Justice Department to look into the matter, saying that the law would "undermine basic notions of fairness that we cherish as Americans."

    But 70 percent of Arizona residents support the law, according to Rasmussen.

    What's going on here? Do we know something the rest of the country doesn't?

    Actually, we do. Context is everything, and it'd be nice if the national media provided some, rather than simply slamming Arizona as a redneck haven filled with nativists and bubbas with a hankering for racial profiling.

    An estimated 500,000 illegal aliens live in Arizona, and many are decent folks, to be sure. But the border is still wide open, and many more are coming. Last year in Border Patrol's 262-mile-wide Tucson Sector, agents arrested 241,000 illegal aliens, a drop of more than 130,000 from 2007.

    It sounds great until you understand that gotaways outnumber arrests by three to one.

    Does the country realize this, or have the people bought Janet Napolitano's political fairy tale that border security has been "transformed" from where we were in 2007?

    As Obama lectures Arizona, citizens here await his decision on an urgent request to send three thousand National Guard troops to the border. Senators John McCain and Jon Kyl recently asked for soldiers, as did Democratic Congresswoman Gabrielle Giffords, to bring some security to American citizens being hammered by cross-border smugglers and thugs.

    Here's an important bit of context: This isn't your father's illegal immigration, when polite farm workers offered to do chores in return for some water and a sandwich as they walked north. Today, the drug cartels have taken over the people-smuggling business. They own the trails into the country and dominate the land, the same way urban gangs control neighborhoods

    Any group wanting in has to deal with them, and the going rate is $2,500 per person. If you don't have the cash, the cartel coyote will offer to bring you in for free if you carry his dope. As Cochise County Sheriff Larry Dever testified to the Senate Homeland Security Committee last week, most of the groups coming up now have a gun behind them.

    Along the Chiricahua Corridor smuggling route north and east of Douglas, Arizona, residents have been screaming for some time about break-ins, threats, intimidation, vandalism, and home invasions. But the feds did nothing to keep citizens safe. Instead, they talked amnesty. Then the inevitable happened.

    On March 27, Cochise County rancher Rob Krentz was murdered on his land, presumably by a drug smuggler. The death occurred on a well-known drug trail, and trackers followed the killer's prints back into Mexico. He is still at large.

    Now, I can't argue with those who say that SB1070 has some provisions that smack of desperation — such as making it a crime to stop your car to pick up a day laborer or to enter a stopped car to get temporary work. That sounds impossible to enforce.

    But critics also say that it will have no impact on besieged residents of southern Arizona, and I disagree. It could help.

    We have a huge problem with crooks coming up from Mexico to our cities and towns, committing crimes, and bolting back south of the border. Not long ago, I wrote a story that backtracked the records of two of these border coyotes and found that between them, they'd been arrested and released by either law enforcement or the courts a total of 35 times.

    One was let go after a traffic stop, and the other had worked construction in Phoenix for years. If this law had been in effect, the police might've been able to get them off the street before they were able to lead more groups into southern Arizona, break into homes, and frighten citizens.

    Civil rights? What about the civil right of American citizens to drive up to their homes at night and have some reasonable assurance that no one is inside?

    On March 31, four hundred people gathered outside the one-room Apache School to tell their elected reps what it's like to live in smuggler-occupied territory. The meeting was held there, in the cold, open air, in part because the nearest place to host a group that size inside was seventy round-trip miles away, and these folks didn't feel comfortable leaving their homes for that length of time.

    They live by a rule of thumb: If you leave your house empty, it will be occupied by illegals or drug smugglers. We're not talking just about homes five miles from the international line. We're talking about homes up to sixty miles north of the border.

    Racial profiling doesn't matter much when you're in a fight to preserve your way of life and keep your family and property safe. Let me give you a different perspective on racial profiling. Now, when Border Patrol chases down and arrests illegals south of I-10, everybody says, "Atta boy. Good police work."

    But if these crossers put a toe north of I-10, they're home free. Except for Maricopa County Sheriff Joe Arpaio, nobody is looking for them, and if you do, it's racial profiling.

    The farther you get from the line, the more people want to make this problem about race. It's the ground the left wants to fight on because it's so effective. Political correctness shuts people up and keeps the border open.

    Arizona has had enough and seen enough. This bill, admittedly flawed, motivated in part by anger and frustration, is an effort to step in and do something about a serious national problem on our southern border that grows more dangerous all the time.

    But the national media largely ignore it because it offers up the wrong victims and the wrong politics. They don't send reporters out to Arizona get the story, to walk the smuggling trails, to sit with beleaguered Americans at their kitchen tables and understand the torment their lives have become.

    Instead, they adopt the preening pose of the self-righteous, screaming from a safe distance about the bubbas. All 70 percent of them.

    It's more fun than context.

    Leo W. Banks covers the border for Tucson Weekly.

  8. farmasea Avatar
    farmasea

    It does not matter how many people are in Arizona illegally if the police need to profile in order to catch them. I truly hope the law is a toothless piece of pandering being mischaracterized by the media.

  9. OMG! Avatar
    OMG!

    Apparently it doesn't matter to the federal government. 500,000 by any measure is a lot. I guess the liberal criteria has more significance than the Constitutional responsibility to secure the borders. Anything else you may want to give away today along with your country?

  10. ArtW Avatar
    ArtW

    Geoff: "I’d agree with that, if the people employing these folk were punished as well."

    Why "if"? Do you also say "I'd agree with punishing bank robbers, IF the banks stopped charging such high interest rates and fees on my credit card"? Who the heck cares whatever else happens along the chain . . . if they are here illegally, that issue needs to be dealt with. People hiring illegals . . . that need to be dealt with as well. They are two seperate and distinct issues . . . although it could be argued if you eliminate the supply of illegals, they would not be here to hire in the first place.

  11. Phil Avatar
    Phil

    Uh oh Art, you just put your hand in the beehive. Prepare for the vicious response.

  12. MoIorn Avatar
    MoIorn

    Your analogy doesn't really work ArtW. People hiring illegals are directly contributing to the problem of illegal immigration by allowing illegal immigrants to profit from their actions. Banks charging high interest rates does not increase the number of bank robberies.

    It is another "go after the weak" law. Give a ten million dollar fine for every illegal immigrant that someone hires and illegal immigration will drop. Of course this won't happen because by now the entire border economy would collapse without illegal labor.

  13. geoff Avatar

    MoIorn: not just "the entire border economy." Some time back there was a raid on a Kosher meat-packing plant up in Iowa:
    http://www.forward.com/articles/13394/

  14. ArtW Avatar
    ArtW

    MoIorn: "Your analogy doesn’t really work ArtW."

    It doesn't?

    "People hiring illegals are directly contributing to the problem of illegal immigration by allowing illegal immigrants to profit from their actions."

    If the illegals were not here to begin with, there would be none to hire. If the banks were not here to begin with, there would be no more bank robbers. Both are true statements are they not? One is absurd – the other is not.

    "It is another “go after the weak” law."

    No – it is a GO AFTER THE CRIMINALS law. Is that really so hard to understand?

    "Give a ten million dollar fine for every illegal immigrant that someone hires and illegal immigration will drop."

    No – fining ten million dollars for hiring an illegal might make HIRING ILLEGALS slow down. It will not stop the illegals from coming here. They come here for a wide variety of reasons . . . not just to pick grapes. Do you think they do not come because they have family here, for medical reasons, to evade mexico law, to join gangs, to sell drugs, to take a shot at any other place than were they are (because it sucks there)? Please, give us a break. First off – what makes you think companies and/or individuals will not still hire illegals? Are you suggesting large fines and laws stop all dubious activities? You should read the news more often . . . or wake up and smell the coffee . . . or whatever it is that you liberals do to come back to reality.

    How about this. Instead of always looking to punish the American (the great "do-badder") first . . . lets plug the leak at the hole. They are here ILLEGALLY. I don't care why and I don't care how. Put them on a bus and send them back. Then, find out how to prevent them from getting here in the first place. If we have to build the Great Wall of Mexico, so be it.

    If people or companies in the US are importing them . . . shut'em down and lock up those responsible. That is a seperate and distinct issue.

  15. Cal Avatar
    Cal

    This pathetic attempt by the Left to portray everything in terms of race has run its course. Until recently, playing the race card has had the effect of stopping those on the receiving end dead in their tracks. They get a shell-shocked look of disbelief when accused of violations of political correctness and slink back into their corner.

    Enough is enough. It’s a tired old tactic and it needs to be completely and totally ignored unless actual racism is involved. Mexican citizens are being targeted because they intentionally violated our laws—not the color of their skin. If we find anyone here from Canada or the Czech Republic or anywhere else that shouldn’t be, they need to be dealt with as well.

    In this case, some 70% of Arizonans support this law (Google it) and about 60% of the public wants to allow the police to verify immigration status.

    http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/po

    Since ICE won’t do its job, it’s up to the good people of Arizona to make sure it gets done. The law was crafted using the federal statutes as its basis and severely limits law enforcement in whom it can question. Only those who stopped for a legitimate reason, (traffic violation, etc.,) and who give the officer probable cause to question their status can be challenged. It isn’t “profiling” as the Left would have us believe. No one can just walk up to someone who’s Latino and demand to “see your papers.” Nice touch on the cartoon though, Teenster. Haven’t seen one of those from you since Bush was in office.

    This is like the LEAST a state can do to stop the inflow of illegal immigrants and the drugs they bring with them. Let the Left howl about “race” and civil rights all day long. Just do your job and let the chips fall where they may. If ICE wants to get on board on do its job or if DC wants to get serious about immigration, great. In the meantime, it’s being left up to the states and it’s high time one of them took the lead.

    It’s reassuring to read the racist comments coming from the usual suspects. Playing the race card means not having to deal with the deeper issues.

    Thanks for providing some perspective OMG.

    MoIorn. I disagree. Take away the cheap labor and we'll find an innovative way to compensate. Cheap produce isn't a valid excuse for turning a blind eye to what is becoming an epidemic problem.

  16. geoff Avatar

    Art: "If people or companies in the US are importing them . . . shut’em down and lock up those responsible. That is a seperate and distinct issue."

    So: is it being done? Seems a whole lot like that gov't regulation you "conservatives" hate so much. You know: gov't interference in business…

    Cuz let's face it: you're never going to plug the hole. Just like the success on that "war on drugs," where you tried to criminalise it, fight it at the source, but didn't do much about curbing demand.

  17. MoIorn Avatar
    MoIorn

    ArtW: If the illegals were not here to begin with, there would be none to hire. If the banks were not here to begin with, there would be no more bank robbers. Both are true statements are they not? One is absurd – the other is not.

    I see it the other way around. These illigals come to the US to make money. If no one would hire them then they would make no money. There are some that use crime to get their money, but this is an minority.

    ArtW: No – it is a GO AFTER THE CRIMINALS law. Is that really so hard to understand?

    My belief is that you will not stop illegal immigration by going hard after illegals. As long as they can make they so much more money in the US than in their home country then they will just keep on coming back. As long as businesses can make more money by hiring illegals, they will keep doing this. Best solution would probably be some kind of highly restrictive temporary worker visa for Mexicans, combined with rigorous checks on illegals. Securing the border is also not really doable, because of its size.

    ArtW: First off – what makes you think companies and/or individuals will not still hire illegals? Are you suggesting large fines and laws stop all dubious activities? You should read the news more often . . . or wake up and smell the coffee . . . or whatever it is that you liberals do to come back to reality.

    Most people and companies make risk/benefit decisions. Currently the profits of hiring illegals outweigh the risks. With ridiculous high fines business owners would be too scared of getting caught ( even if it is a small chance ).

  18. Tony Avatar
    Tony

    The State of Arizona has waited and waited for the federal government to step in and help enforce the FEDERAL illegal immigration laws that are already in the books. Since they are unwilling to "hurt the inner child" of all the illegals (and because they would lose hispanic support and votes), the governor of Arizona has taken matters into her own hands, and given the law enforcement a more defined RIGHT to question a suspected illegal immigrant's status of citizenship. This is common sense, plain and simple. If you are here ILLEGALLY, you have broken the law, and are thereby subject to deportation. PERIOD. And to watch all of the hispanics who get out to protest our disapproval of their trampling of our laws, makes me sick. It is insult to injury. Who is running this nation, anyway? We have become a nation of touchy-feely, ambiguous, not willing to stand up for ourselves, whimps.

  19. Glen Avatar
    Glen

    Most civilized countries can easily identify who their citizens are. We can not. That is the responsibility of the federal government, if anybody. Frankly, we need a secure national ID card for everyone above a certain age, both citizens and non-citizens. This is necessary for our internal security, for our economy and for our democratic form of government (we have to be able to identify those who are legal voters!). Arizonans may well be in danger of becoming an endangered species in Arizona. I can understand their frustration with the lack of action by the federal government.

  20. Waco Willie Avatar
    Waco Willie

    Warning to Barry 'Pinnochio on Speed' Obumblefumble, Jackson, and Sharpton!!!!! Arizona authorities are profiling racist idiots…BEWARE!!!!!!!! Have your 'papers' ready…………..

  21. Syncopation Avatar
    Syncopation

    I don't see any racial profiling, I see illegal immigrants running across the border and crying "racism" to protect themselves from the fact that they have blatantly broken the law.

    Deport them. It has nothing to do with racism. Everything else you hear is just the media feeding the frenzy for web hits and commercial spots. Don't be sheeple, just deport.

    Oh, and btw I'm a big ol left wing Democrat. 😎

  22. CaliLass Avatar
    CaliLass

    If you think a driver's license is ID you MUST be white. Driver's license is not dependant on legal immigration status (or can be had with easily-forged docs).

    What Arizona is asking is for every person born in America and just as American as everyone else (with 4th amendment rights intact) to carry their birth certificate as proof that they are here legally and produce it on demand.

    How many white folks on this thread are preparing to do that next time they go to Arizona? The brown folks already do anyway, just to keep from being hassled. How many people think Americans ought to have to carry their birth certificate with them and produce it on demand?

  23. aaron Avatar
    aaron

    ArtW, has locking up addicts prevented the sale of drugs?

  24. Rob Avatar
    Rob

    Leave it to MAXINE to come up with a solution for the mess that America is now in economically.

    I bought a bird feeder. I hung it on my back porch and filled it with seed. What a beauty of a bird feeder it was, as I filled it

    lovingly with seed.

    Within a week we had hundreds of birds taking advantage of the continuous flow of free and easily accessible food.

    But then the birds started building nests in the boards of the patio, above the table and next to the barbecue.

    Then came the poop. It was everywhere: on the patio tile, the chairs, the table. Everywhere!

    Then some of the birds turned mean. They would dive bomb me and try to peck me even though I had fed them out of my own pocket.

    And others birds were boisterous and loud. They sat on the feeder and squawked and screamed at all hours of the day and night and demanded that I fill it when it got low on food.

    After a while, I couldn't even sit on my own back porch anymore. So I took down the bird feeder and in three days the birds were gone. I cleaned up their mess and took down the many nests they had built all over the patio.

    Soon, the back yard was like it used to be …. Quiet, serene…. and no one demanding their rights to a free meal.

    Now let's see, our government gives out free food, subsidized housing, free medical care and free education, and allows anyone born here to be an automatic citizen.

    Then the illegal's came by the tens of thousands. Suddenly our taxes went up to pay for free services; small apartments are housing 5 families; you have to wait 6 hours to be seen by an emergency room doctor; your child's second grade class is behind other schools because over half the class doesn't speak English.

    Corn Flakes now come in a bilingual box; I have to 'press one ' to hear my bank talk to me in English, and people waving flags other than 'Old Glory' are squawking and screaming in the streets, demanding more rights and free liberties.

    Just my opinion, but maybe it's time for the government to take down the bird feeder.

  25. Matt Avatar
    Matt

    I will be damned if I am going to carry around my birth certificate or a passport to travel in my own country. All of you who say, "what's the worry?" are ceding your rights as Americans. I hope they pull over every frigging car passing through the state and you can spend the night in one of Arpaio's tent jails until a relative can get your papers to you. Have fun.

  26. Rob Avatar
    Rob

    Hellmann's Mayonnaise – a bit of history.

    Most people don't know that back in 1912, Hellmann's mayonnaise was manufactured in England . In fact, the Titanic was carrying 12,000 jars of the condiment scheduled for delivery in Vera Cruz, Mexico , which was to be the next port of call for the great ship after its stop in New York . This would have been the largest single shipment of mayonnaise ever delivered to Mexico . But as we know, the great ship did not make it to New York . The ship hit an iceberg and sank, and the cargo was forever lost. The people of Mexico , who were crazy about mayonnaise, and were eagerly awaiting its delivery, were disconsolate at the loss. Their anguish was so great, that they declared a National Day of Mourning, which they still observe to this day. The National Day of Mourning occurs each year on May 5th and is known, of course, as –

    Sinko De Mayo.

    Author Unknown

  27. Syncopation Avatar
    Syncopation

    Racist Rob hurts his own cause. 'Nuff said about that trash.

    CaliLass said:

    "If you think a driver’s license is ID you MUST be white. Driver’s license is not dependant on legal immigration status (or can be had with easily-forged docs).

    What Arizona is asking is for every person born in America and just as American as everyone else (with 4th amendment rights intact) to carry their birth certificate as proof that they are here legally and produce it on demand.

    How many white folks on this thread are preparing to do that next time they go to Arizona"

    I'm white. I've carried around a wallet sized laminated birth certificate card certified by the State of Kansas (and issued by the State of Kansas) since I was about 18 or so. I have no problem with any law enforcement office stopping me to prove my citizenship. If it happened every day it might get tiresome but I don't think that's what is going on at all. 😉

    Another true story:

    When I was 22 I fell in love. The person I was in love with was a Canadian national from Vancouver B.C. (Canada). I was/am an American citizen. I used what money I had to drive up to Vancouver B.C. and we were basically "shacking up". When I tried to find work there, I was told that I could not work for anyone because I was not a Canadian citizen. I had to either be hired by an American company that had a presence in Canada, or I had to be a Canadian citizen. I tried everything for two months. I was able to get a bar-back job and a waiter job (under the table). But that wore thin quickly. As often happens at that age, and with the stress of the citizenship problems, we broke up and I moved back to the United States.

    Never during the entire time was I ever resentful of the Canadian government. Never during the entire time did I think I was being discriminated against because of my race, religion, sexual orientation, or any other minority status. I just knew that I couldn't do the paperwork for citizenship as I had no money and no job. I didn't stand around on the streets of Vancouver with cards saying that I was being discriminated against. I knew full well that I could only stay a short time without being a Canadian citizen or being employed by an American company in Canada.

    Are conditions worse in Mexico than in the United States? Surely. I understand that.

    So go through the normal immigration process. Don't run across the border in the night with no job and no money and then wave placards claiming you're being discriminated against the next day. You're not. You're simply breaking the law, regardless of how justified you feel in doing it.

    So for you illegal Mexican immigrants: This is called RESPONSIBILITY and REALITY. Learn it, understand it, live it.

    And for gods sakes, PLEASE shut up already.

  28. Glen Avatar
    Glen

    Matt puts his finger on the problem. The right refuses to carry ID…although I do not know where this right comes from….it is not in the Constitution. The left screams "racism" regarding any reasonable attempt to control our borders. OK, so we have a majority of Americans who are against either controlling the borders or requiring reliable ID. How nice! How stupid! Red, White, and Blue Idiocy! Halleluyah!

  29. Glen Avatar
    Glen

    PS: I suspect that a solution will be found after the SECOND nuclear device is set off within the continental United States (we have a lot of slow learners about).

  30. Syncopation Avatar
    Syncopation

    Oh, and incidentally, I'm a left-wing democrat.

    And no, Matt doesn't put his finger on anything except his handy dandy race card.

  31. Syncopation Avatar
    Syncopation

    Nuclear device? What are you blabbering about, Glen? Are you threatening someone? Are you touting a terrorist act as a solution? Or are you just being silly?:

  32. Brett Avatar
    Brett

    This was bound to happen. Arizona is too geographically close to the hate-stench of Utah.

  33. Dave Avatar
    Dave

    For all the apologists that want the employers dealt with, I know you do not read or listen to anything that differs from your vision. And of course you also consider mid America "fly over land". But in a state called Iowa, (yes, it is a part of America) one of those employers who hired illegal aliens has been convicted, and is now fighting to get less than a life sentence. That's right, a life sentence. Seems he hired a LOT of illegal aliens. What we need is a LOT more profiling, especially for the southern border, and for the arabs in airports.

  34. old geezer Avatar
    old geezer

    Where did they find this blond haired twit? Seems like she would be more convincing wrapped around a pole in Uncle Leo\'s Den of Beauties. But then I am old fashion and believe that people should be educated in order to have cogent opinions……silly me!

  35. Polara Avatar
    Polara

    My two cents: My grandfather came here legally from Romania between the World Wars. It sure as hell wasn't easy but he eventually became a successful businessman in NY buying and selling candy stores and luncheonettes. The street and store signs weren't written in Romanian or Yiddish or Hebrew…The forms for his driver's license and buusiness were written in English and when he called the bank or the phone company he was spoken to in ENGLISH. See the pattern here? He came here, learned the langauage (he went to school at night) and participated in the Great American Dream,To the day he died, he sounded like Bella Lagosi, but he was fluent in ENGLISH as well. I go to the Chase bank and the damn ATM has 10 languages to chose from…Walmart and Sears have signs written in both English and Spanish. NYC schools struggle to teach kids in over 100 languages…Does anyone see a problem w/ this? You move to Israel, for instance, and one of the first things they do is immerse you in Hebrew language school to help you assimilate. Note that KEY word: ASSIMILATE. Has anyone been to Miami lately? It's really NOT part of this country anymore. I go to a full service gas station down there; tell the guy, "fill 'er up!" and he puts in $5.00…WHY? He's been here for YEARS but doesn't speak the damn language..Doesn't even undertand one of the most basic requests in his business. Go to a White Castle on Long Island..Tell the girl I don't want the spicy cheese but instead the regular cheese,..She doesn't understand because she doesn't speak English and has to call over her manager. I ask her, in my high school Spanish, "Quantos anos tiene usted in Esatdos Unidos?" She responds, "Siete." She's in this country SEVEN years and can't understand enough English to change the cheese on a damn burger???

    The great unifier in this–and most countries–is the commonality of a language. There are probably a thousand languages in India, but the language of commerce is English. There are regional dialects in Gernamy, but they all speak High German when doing business. What happens when this all goes to hell? Remember French speaking Quebec wanting to succeed from the rest of Canada a few years ago? Don't think that could EVER happen here? I would be VERY surprised if, in 50 or so years, one of the heavily hispanic states (my vote would Florida) doesn't try to pull the same crap. Just glad I won't be around to see it.

  36. Polara Avatar
    Polara

    Oh, by the way, I'm aware of my spelling errors and typos..It's after 4:00 AM and I'm tired…Let's NOT dwell on them, OK?

  37. Glen Avatar
    Glen

    Syncopation…there are folks out there that want you and yours dead and are willing to do something to achieve that end. They are called terrorists. They do not care about race, sex, or age. Any dead American will do, but they prefer more rather than less. Meanwhile, we are just moseying down the street, whistling our little tune so as not to be 'afraid.' The ebb and flow of perhaps 10,000,000 illegal immigrants provides a convenient means of entry to this country for them. We already have a number of Mexican drug gangs operating openly within the United States. Do you seriously think we are in control of our own borders?

  38. Medved Avatar
    Medved

    "Meadow Muffins", "Road Apples" and "Pasture Pies"! I am sorry you are not going to contribute to Arizona's economy this year. I am not sorry about the new law. Perhaps it will convince more than a few IAs to become citizens. After all, that is what it is all about. With citicenship comes the benefits of living in the US and the requirement to pay taxes. Of course most of the new citizens will not make enough money to pay and Federal Income tax but a contribution towards Social Security and there FREE medical care would be nice, wouldn't it?

  39. ellis Avatar
    ellis

    it was sometime in the 1970s, i believe, when the supreme court ruled that a U.S. citizen does not have to show ID to the police if he is going about his normal activities. this was decided on a case involving a black man who liked to walk the streets of san diego at night, and kept being stopped by the police because he was walking the streets at night and was black. under those circumstances, citizens need not carry identification. the need to carry such, called internal passports in the ussr and papers in germany of the 1930s, would put us in the class of those dictatorships. do we really want to be ranked with them? do our teabaggers want to be associated with government intrusion of such a magnitude. i thought that is what they were against, but here they are out there ranting and raving and wanting this ridiculous and clearly racist law to be effective. it is however a clear win for the african americans. because there are few very dark people in mexico they would clearly, like caucasions, not be bothered by the police.

    in the 1960s and 1970s, the largest group of illegal immigrants in the u.s. were irish, but no one cared. in the same years there was a continual uproar about a group of legal u.s. citizens, those from puerto rico, but of course they were brown and black. does all this strilke a cord with you CAL. racism has never gone away in this country. even when outright calls as from the KKK have been silenced, there are all sorts of coded words used. i also note that many on the right, usually the far right nutsies, never seem to be able to refer to our president as president obama, but use all sorts of code names to indicate their feeling that he is not rightfully in office and that he is black. CAL what more would you have people do. true, illegal is illegal, but one cannot determine this a priori, unless we decide , as arizona has, that the only illegals are from mexico and latin america. this law would not stand up on our northern border and so is not even considered by the states there. also if anyone considers our southern borders porous, what would our northern border be considered; completely open i would guess. we certainly guard the crossings in citys, but for most of the 2000 or 3000 miles, there is no effort made to stop people from just walking across. if we were really serious about stopping terrorists, the northern border ought also to be fenced.

    cinco de mayo is a celebration held in the u.s.. in mexico 20 years ago, it was not a holiday , but with the increasing noise about it coming from the u.s. the mexicans, knowing a good thing whan they see it, decided to make it a holiday also.

  40. Matt Avatar
    Matt

    Syncopation, you accuse ME of playing a race card? I am not the one depicting every illegal immigrant as "out there with a placard" demanding handouts or claiming discrimination. DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THAT AN ILLEGAL IS GOING TO WAVE A GIANT "HERE I AM!" SIGN IN THIS CLIMATE???? The protesters are not defending illegal immigration–they are defending your and my right to not live in a police state.

    Especially after your story about Canada, I would guess that the vast majority of the illegals in AZ are looking for work–whatever they can get–just as you were.

    You really have a major disconnect there…

    And again, I see no reason why I should have to carry anything other than my DL (or state-issued picture ID) with me.

  41. geoff Avatar

    Matt: "I will be damned if I am going to carry around my birth certificate or a passport to travel in my own country." Kind of like the Soviets. Maybe you'll all have to get permits (or a microchip implant) to travel out of town.

    And yeah: given the whole controversy raised by the "birthers," it seems that birth certificates aren't good enough, either.

    Problems, problems.

  42. Phil Avatar
    Phil

    Calilass: "If you think a driver’s license is ID you MUST be white. Driver’s license is not dependant on legal immigration status (or can be had with easily-forged docs). "

    You are wrong. A Drivers license is your identity.

    As for they not being dependant and that can be had with forged docs, then be it. I doubt if more than 10% can even get forged docs easily. So the country will still be free of 90% of the illegals if they are caught.

    I am prepared to take the chances.

  43. Syncopation Avatar
    Syncopation

    >>Syncopation, you accuse ME of playing a race card? I am not the one depicting every illegal immigrant as “out there with a placard” demanding handouts or claiming discrimination.

    I never said every. If you have to mischaracterize my words you've already lost your argument.

    >>DO YOU HONESTLY THINK THAT AN ILLEGAL IS GOING TO WAVE A GIANT “HERE I AM!” SIGN IN THIS CLIMATE????

    I think that no laws are being enforced to get rid of illegal immigrants so, yes, I think they would. They are protesting the enforcement of any law that exposes their illegal acts.

    >>The protesters are not defending illegal immigration–they are defending your and my right to not live in a police state.

    You don't even know what a police state is. Having to prove your citizenship by showing a wallet sized certified birth certificate is NOT a police state. It's the United States trying to get a handle on the very real problem of Mexican citizens who decide that United States Law means NOTHING to them.

    >>Especially after your story about Canada, I would guess that the vast majority of the illegals in AZ are looking for work–whatever they can get–just as you were.

    If you read my whole story you'd have known that I left Canada because I couldn't find work that matched their policy for American nationals. I LEFT CANADA BECAUSE I COULD NOT GET A JOB THERE THAT WAS LEGAL. And I didn't resent the Canadian people or the Canadian government because of it.

    >>And again, I see no reason why I should have to carry anything other than my DL (or state-issued picture ID) with me.

    The reason is because people are flowing across the border illegally (i.e. breaking the law) and placing a strain on all USA taxpayer funded systems. It doesn't get more simple than this.

  44. geoff Avatar

    Interesting, Jack. "A Drivers license is your identity." But it seems that states issue drivers' licenses to illegal immigrants in part because they need to drive to get to the jobs they're not allowed to have.

    "State Senator Russell Pearce, the Republican sponsor of the latest ID law, gave away his real intent, blocking the vote, when he said, "There is a massive effort under way to register illegal aliens in this country."

    "How many? Pearce's PR flak told me, five million. All Democrats, too. Again, I asked Pearce's office to give me their names and addresses from their phony registration forms. I'd happily make a citizens arrest of each one, on camera. Pearce didn't have five million names. He didn't have five. He didn't have one.

    "The horde of five million voters who swam the Rio Grande just to vote for Obama was calculated on a Republican website extrapolating from the number of Mexicans in a border town who refused jury service because they were not citizens. Not one, in fact, had registered to vote: they had registered to drive. They had obtained licenses as required by the law.

    "The illegal voters, "wetback" welfare moms, and alien job thieves are just GOP website wet dreams, but their mythic PR power helps the party's electoral hacks chop away at voter rolls and civil rights with little more than a whimper from the Democrats."

    More here:
    http://www.truthout.org/behind-the-arizona-immigr

  45. Brenda Avatar
    Brenda

    She states: "Using vague and coded terms like “reasonable suspicion” the law enables police to pick up people who don’t look a certain way." Obviously, she is ignorant of the law. "Reasonable suspicion" is not a code phrase. It is well precendented in law. This does not give anyone the right to stop someone. She is slanted and ignorant in her overall assessment of the bill.

  46. ArtW Avatar
    ArtW

    Geoff/Matt: "Matt: “I will be damned if I am going to carry around my birth certificate or a passport to travel in my own country.” Kind of like the Soviets. Maybe you’ll all have to get permits (or a microchip implant) to travel out of town."

    You'd better bet your ass you will carry "your papers" if you cross the border into Mexico.

    Mexican president Felipe Calderon has made it clear that he considers Arizona law intolerant and a clear human rights violation. That is really an interesting statement, considering that in his own country the government bars foreigners for entering if they upset "the equilibrium of national demographics" Gee, that sounds an awful lot like 'profiling'. If outsiders don't enhance Mexico's "economic or national interest" or are "not found to be physically or mentally healthy" they are not welcome in Mexico. Period. Neither are those who show "contempt against national sovereignty or security" What this essentially means is; people going to Mexico to become citizens must not be economic burdens on society. No welfare. And they must have clean criminal histories. Those seeking to obtain Mexican citizenship must show a birth certificate, provide a bank statement proving economic independence, pass an exam and prove they can provide for their own healthcare. Hmmm, odd that.

    Illegal entry into Mexico is equivalent to a felony punishable by two years imprisonment.

    Document fraud is subject to fine and imprisonment.

    Alien marriage fraud is punishable by fine and imprisonment.

    Evading deportation is a serious crime in Mexico.

    Illegal re-entry after prior deportation is punishable by TEN years in prison in Mexico. Foreigners may be kicked out of the country without due process.

    And "Show me your papers"? Pffft. In Mexico you had better be ready just to do that. Mexico's 'National Catalog of Foreigners' tracks ALL outside tourists and foreign nationals. A 'National Foreign Registry' tracks and verifies the identity of every member of the population who MUST carry a citizens identity card (oh, the horrors). Visitors who do not possess proper documents in Mexico and proper identification are subject to ARREST as illegal aliens.

    The difference between Mexico's illegal immigration laws and ours? They actually WILL throw you in jail and allow you to rot.

    Mexico understands the impact that illegal immigration can have and takes measures to prevent it. Why shouldn't we do the same – considering we are the direction most illegals are running?

  47. ellis Avatar
    ellis

    artw

    there is no enforcement of noncitizens in mexico to carry papers showing their staus. yes one needs to get one of the various visas issued to foreigners, tourist or immigration visas, but they are never asked for and even further are not considered legal identifivation by banks and such.. it is probably true that in some areas the foreigners living in mexico are known to the authorities, but in those areas where the foreign legal population is large, there is no way the authorities have to track these people. though your ideas of mexican law may be somewhat correct, the enforcement of those laws is spotty at best and only used when the authorities want to get someone for another reason. foreigners bring to mexico a large amount of money and so are not targets. there are also illegals in mexico, mostly american, and many of these live under the radar quite easily for long periods. occasionally those wanted for crimes in the u.s. are found and expelled into the arms of the u.s. police, but the crimes appear to have to be serious felonies. the owner and editor of an english language paper in los cabos admitted to having committed a felony while working for the post office in san francisco, this in one of her editorials and probably while in an alcoholic haze, but the crime was long past the statue of limitations so she has never been bathered by either the mexican or the american police.

  48. Jim Avatar
    Jim

    For once I agree with Geoff (I guess). I don't blame illegals for coming here. They can work, make more money than they can at home and in my experience when I worked at the post office, send money home. We certainly need people here who seem to want to do work that few Americans will do. But these folks need to follow procedures and laws and employers who hire those who don't need to bear legal consequences.

    A speaker at a conference on immigration at Georgetown University said there is no such thing as an illegal immigrant. No one is illegal, he said. What a misleading statement. Of course people are not illegal but their status is. Come on Father, don't mislead us.

    Frankly I don't see any solution to the problem of illegal immigrants. Both political parties have no incentive to do anything. The democrats want them to come here and vote and not work, the republicans want them to come here and work and not vote.

    As far as SB 1070 is concerned, if Al Sharpton is against it, it can't be all bad.

  49. Glen Avatar
    Glen

    Phil and Geoff. Reasonably good fake driver's licenses and 'proof of (automobile) insurance' are readily available for less than $50 in many American urban areas. The reason for their ready availability is the high cost of automobile insurance, especially for young males ($1,200/year or more in Newark, NJ). That is why driver's licenses do not 'get it.' I am US Army retired and have an excellent military photo ID including encoded computer data that can be easily checked on a world-wide accessible data base. It gives me access to military bases, PX's, Commissaries, medical insurance, and so forth. Expansion of this existing system would not be overly costly.

    Real security comes at a price. Nattering on about Nazi Germany or the Soviet Union may give one some 'warm fuzzies' but does not address the issue of security here in the United States. Republican 'wet dreams' are undoubtedly mostly just that; however, remember that the World Trade Center was attacked TWICE, and was destroyed on the second attempt. We do have an ongoing security problem.

  50. ArtW Avatar
    ArtW

    ellis: "yes one needs to get one of the various visas issued to foreigners, tourist or immigration visas"

    Hello.

    "only used when the authorities want to get someone for another reason."

    Have you actually read the AZ law? I'll bet not. Law enforcement can not stop a person because they think they might be an illegal alien . . . a person must first have to be stopped for some other reason and then, and only then, can law enforcement ask to see identification. Gee . . . oddly that does not seem so strange.

  51. OMG! Avatar
    OMG!

    There's a lot of things I like about the article below, but I disagree with the conclusion. I still think a patrolled fence is still needed for drug trafficking.

    http://www.heritage.org/Research/Reports/2006/03/

    The Real Problem with Immigration… and the Real Solution

    Published on March 1, 2006 by Tim Kane, Ph.D. and Kirk Johnson, Ph.D.

    America's exceptional status as a "nation of immigrants" is being challenged by globalization, which is making both migration and terrorism much easier. The biggest challenge for policymakers is distinguishing illusory immigration problems from real problems. One thing is quite clear: The favored approach of recent years-a policy of benign neglect-is no longer tenable. Members of both the Senate and the House of Representatives recognize this and deserve credit for striving to craft a comprehensive law during this session of Congress.

    In 2005, immigration policy received far more genuine attention on Capitol Hill, and Members of Congress from both sides of the aisle are now considering what to do about immigration policy. Their various efforts have focused on a wide variety of changes in current policy, including improving border security, strengthening employer verification of employment, establishing a new temporary guest worker program, and offering some level of amnesty to illegal immigrants currently living in the United States. At present, these proposals are working their way through the legislative process.

    However, to achieve results, immigration reform must be comprehensive. A lopsided, ideological approach that focuses exclusively on border security while ignoring migrant workers (or vice versa) is bound to fail. If Congress passes another law that glosses over the fundamental contradictions in the status quo, then the status quo will not change. Thinking through the incentives is the key to success.

    The Real Problem

    Illegal immigration into the United States is massive in scale. More than 10 million undocumented aliens currently reside in the U.S., and that population is growing by 700,000 per year.[1] On one hand, the presence of so many aliens is a powerful testament to the attractiveness of America. On the other hand, it is a sign of how dangerously open our borders are.

    Typical illegal aliens come to America primarily for better jobs and in the process add value to the U.S. economy. However, they also take away value by weakening the legal and national security environment. When three out of every 100 people in America are undocumented (or, rather, documented with forged and faked papers), there is a profound security problem. Even though they pose no direct security threat, the presence of millions of undocumented migrants distorts the law, distracts resources, and effectively creates a cover for terrorists and criminals.

    In other words, the real problem presented by illegal immigration is security, not the supposed threat to the economy. Indeed, efforts to curtail the economic influx of migrants actually worsen the security dilemma by driving many migrant workers underground, thereby encouraging the culture of illegality. A non-citizen guest worker program is an essential component of securing the border, but only if it is the right program.

    It is important to craft a guest worker program intelligently. While there are numerous issues involved in such a program, many of which are beyond the scope of this paper, the evidence indicates that worker migration is a net plus economically. With this in mind, there are 14 principles- with an eye toward the economic incentives involved-that should be included as part of a guest worker program.

    Immigration Benefits and Costs

    An honest assessment acknowledges that illegal immigrants bring real benefits to the supply side of the American economy, which is why the business community is opposed to a simple crackdown. There are economic costs as well, given America's generous social insurance institutions. The cost of securing the border would logically exist regardless of the number of immigrants.

    The argument that immigrants harm the American economy should be dismissed out of hand. The population today includes a far higher percentage (12 percent) of foreign-born Americans than in recent decades, yet the economy is strong, with higher total gross domestic product (GDP), higher GDP per person, higher productivity per worker, and more Americans working than ever before. Immigration may not have caused this economic boom, but it is folly to blame immigrants for hurting the economy at a time when the economy is simply not hurting. As Stephen Moore pointed out in a recent article in The Wall Street Journal:

    The increase in the immigration flow has corresponded with steady and substantial reductions in unemployment from 7.3 percent to 5.1 percent over the past two decades. And the unemployment rates have fallen by 6 percentage points for blacks and 3.5 percentage points for Latinos.[2]

    Whether low-skilled or high-skilled, immigrants boost national output, enhance specialization, and provide a net economic benefit. The 2005 Economic Report of the President (ERP) devotes an entire chapter to immigration and reports that "A comprehensive accounting of the benefits and costs of immigration shows the benefits of immigration exceed the costs."[3] The following are among the ERP's other related findings:

    Immigrant unemployment rates are lower than the national average in the U.S.;

    Studies show that a 10 percent share increase of immigrant labor results in roughly a 1 percent reduction in native wages-a very minor effect;

    Most immigrant families have a positive net fiscal impact on the U.S., adding $88,000 more in tax revenues than they consume in services; and

    Social Security payroll taxes paid by improperly identified (undocumented) workers have led to a $463 billion funding surplus.

    The macroeconomic argument in favor of immigration is especially compelling for highly educated individuals with backgrounds in science, engineering, and information technology. The increasing worry about outsourcing jobs to other nations is just one more reason to attract more jobs to America by insourcing labor. If workers are allowed to work inside the U.S., they immediately add to the economy and pay taxes, which does not happen when a job is outsourced. Therefore, capping the number of H-1B visas limits America's power as a brain "magnet" attracting highly skilled workers, thereby weakening U.S. firms' competitiveness.

    Congress increased the number of H-1B visas by 20,000 in November 2004 after the annual cap was exhausted on the first day of fiscal year (FY) 2005.[4] On August 12, 2005, the U.S. Citizenship and Immigration Service announced that it had already received enough H-1B applications for FY 2006 (which began October 1, 2005) and would not be accepting any more applications for the general selection lottery.[5] These and other numbers show that more workers from abroad, not fewer, are needed.

    Still, critics of this type of insourcing worry that jobs are being taken away from native-born Americans in favor of low-wage foreigners. Recent data suggest that these fears are overblown. While the nation's unemployment rate generally has remained just above 5 percent over the past year, unemployment in information technology now stands at a four-year low of 3.7 percent.[6]

    While the presence of low-skill migrant workers can be construed as a challenge to low-skill native workers, the economic effects are the same as the effects of free trade-a net positive and a leading cause of economic growth. A National Bureau of Economic Research study by David Card found that "Overall, evidence that immigrants have harmed the opportunities of less educated natives is scant."[7] The consensus of the vast majority of economists is that the broad economic gains from openness to trade and immigration far outweigh the isolated cases of economic loss. In the long run, as has been documented in recent years, the gains are even higher.[8]

    A simple example is instructive in terms of both trade and immigration. An imaginary small town has 10 citizens: some farmers, some ranchers, a fisherman, a tailor, a barber, a cook, and a merchant. A new family headed by a young farmer moves to town. His presence is resented by the other farmers, but he also consumes from the other business in town-getting haircuts, eating beef and fish, having his shirts sewn and pressed, and buying supplies at the store, not to mention paying taxes. He undoubtedly boosts the supply side of the economy, but he also boosts the demand side. If he were run out of town for "stealing jobs," his demand for everyone's work would leave with him.

    The real problem with undocumented immigrant workers is that flouting the law has become the norm, which makes the job of terrorists and drug traffickers infinitely easier. The economic costs of terrorism can be very high and very real, quite apart from the otherwise positive economic impact of immigration. In order to separate the good from the bad, there is no substitute for a nationwide system that identifies all foreign persons present within the U.S. It is not sufficient to identify visitors upon entry and exit; rather, all foreign visitors must be quickly documented.

    Economic Principles for an Effective Guest Worker Program

    To this end, 14 economic principles should be borne in mind in crafting an effective guest worker program:

    All guest workers in the U.S. should be identified biometrically. Technologically, a nationwide system of biometric identification (fingerprints, retina scans, etc.) for visitors has already been developed for the US-VISIT program. A sister "WORKER-VISIT" program is essential for enforcement efforts and would help American companies to authenticate guest workers efficiently. There is at present no effective system of internal enforcement, but the Department of Homeland Security (DHS) has in place a "basic pilot employment verification program"[9] that demonstrates the potential effectiveness of using such technology with guest workers to discourage undocumented work arrangements. Employers who want to hire guest workers should be required to verify electronically that the particular worker has registered with WORKER-VISIT and is eligible to work in the United States.

    Existing migrant workers should have incentives to register with the guest worker program. A guest worker program that is less attractive to migrant workers than the status quo will fail. Therefore, the new law for guest workers should include both positive incentives for compliance and negative incentives (punishments) for non-compliance. For example, a program that caps the tenure of guest workers at six years can be expected to experience massive noncompliance at the six-year point because a hard cap on tenure is essentially an incentive to skirt the law. If the goal is to limit the number of undocumented foreign workers, then renewable short-term work permits have a greater likelihood of success than a single permit with an inflexible expiration date.

    U.S. companies need incentives to make the program work. Immigration reform will be successful if-and probably only if-American companies support its passage and enforcement. A new law must therefore avoid both onerous red tape (e.g., requiring an exhaustive search of native workers before a job can be offered to migrants) and any provision that would make it easier to hire guest workers than it is to hire natives (e.g., waiving payroll taxes on guest workers that must be paid on native worker payrolls). Perhaps the most important incentive is a negative one: The new law should include funding for a system of internal enforcement to police and prosecute companies that break the law.

    Guest worker status should not be a path to citizenship and should not include rights to U.S. social benefits. If the incentive to work in the U.S. is artificially enhanced with a promise of potential citizenship, foreign migrants will be oversupplied. Citizenship carries with it tremendous benefits (e.g., social spending and entitlement programs) that should be provided only to American citizens. For example, unemployment insurance benefits should never go to foreign visitors. Providing benefits such as unemployment insurance, welfare, Head Start, and other payments to visiting workers will significantly distort the incentives to migrate to the U.S. The legal status equivalent of guest workers is that of tourists-people who reside in America temporarily and are bound by U.S. law but do not have any claim on citizenship or its benefits.

    Efficient legal entry for guest workers is a necessary condition for compliance. Existing illegal migrants should be required to leave the U.S. and then allowed a system of entry through border checkpoints with strict conditions for identification, documentation, and compliance with U.S. law. If the guest worker program instead involves prolonged waits for reentry or a lottery for work visas, existing migrant workers will have little incentive to comply with the law. Moreover, such reforms will be perceived as attempts to shrink the supply of migrant labor and will be resisted. However, a program of efficient legal entry for migrants who comply with biometric identification will not deter compliance and will encourage migrants to utilize the formal channels of entry rather than jumping the border.

    Efficient legal entry should be contingent upon a brief waiting period to allow law enforcement agencies the time needed to screen incoming workers. A waiting period of at least a few days will give law enforcement agencies time to screen incoming visitors' biometrics against criminal and terrorist databases.

    Provisions for efficient legal entry will not be amnesty, nor will they "open the floodgates." Such a system will actually encourage many migrants to exit, knowing that they will be able to return under reasonable regulations. This is in stark contrast to the status quo, in which the difficulty and uncertainty of reentering the U.S. effectively discourage aliens from leaving. Documented migrant workers would enter a new status: not citizen, not illegal, but rather temporary workers.

    As for opening the floodgates, the reality is that they are already open. More to the point, labor markets operate effectively to balance supply and demand, and those markets are currently in balance. Creating a new category of legal migrants would not change that equilibrium, provide unfair benefits to undocumented aliens over others, or be tied to citizenship, but it would enhance security.

    Government agencies should not micromanage migrant labor. Any federal attempt to license migrants by occupation-micromanaging the market for migrant labor-would be a dangerous precedent and would likely fail. Socialized planning of any market is inferior to the free market, and its implementation is dangerous on many levels. First, allowing government management of the migrant labor market would be terrible precedent for later intrusion into all U.S. labor markets. Second, it would be open to abuse, vulnerable to corruption, and inefficient even if run by angels.

    For example, in the case of a worker certified as an avocado picker who has carpentry skills that his employer would like to utilize and promote, why should the worker and his employer have to petition a Labor Department bureaucrat just to revise the worker's skill certification? Equally implausible is a program that requires migrants and businesses to know one another prior to entry and file the relevant paperwork. Labor markets do not work this way. Such schemes would quickly prove ineffective and lead right back the status quo. Real labor markets work informally, and the power of the market should be utilized to make the guest worker program function efficiently.

    The guest worker program should not be used as an excuse to create another large federal bureaucracy. The inherent risk of authorizing a new guest worker program is that it will establish a new, unwieldy federal bureaucracy that outgrows its budget and mandate. Critics contend that the federal government is ill-equipped to handle the substantial influx of people who would enter the U.S. through a guest worker program. They further cite the long backlogs that plague other immigration programs, most notably the green card program.

    One way to alleviate this problem is to involve the private sector in the guest worker visa process, much as gun retailers are integrated into the criminal background checks of gun buyers. Many parts of the guest worker visa process could be facilitated by contracting out certain parts of the process, including paperwork processing, interviewing of visa candidates (if necessary), coordinating with the DHS and federal law enforcement agencies on background checks, facilitating placement with prospective employers, and facilitating the exit upon expiration of the visa. As long as the private contractor has no conflict of interest in the visa selection or placement process, such a system should be better than another federal bureaucracy.

    Bonds should be used to promote compliance after entry. There are many smart ways that bonds could be used to manage the immigrant pool. In one system, guest workers would pay upon entry for a bond that is redeemable upon exit. An individual who wanted to recoup the money would comply with the overall guest worker system and other U.S. laws, effectively acting as part of a self-enforcing network that discourages non-bonded, undocumented migrants. An alternative arrangement would have U.S. companies paying for the bonds as a right to hire some number of workers. If Congress felt compelled to cap the number of guest workers, the bonds could be treated like property rights and bid on to establish the market value of a guest worker. In both cases, the dollar value of the bond would be repaid after the migrant exited the U.S. but would be forfeit if the migrant went into the black market economy.

    Guest workers should be required to find a sponsoring employer within one month (or some other reasonable period of time). The employer would verify via WORKER-VISIT that the particular worker is eligible to be employed in the United States. If the migrant cannot locate an employer within the time frame, the law should require that he or she leave the country. A sponsorship system is an efficient alternative to government management of the supply of and demand for migrant labor. It would be self-checking because employers could be required to submit payroll records regularly for automated review, which would identify the guest workers at each location. If employment with a sponsor ended, the worker would be allowed a similar reasonable period of time to find a new employer. Existing undocumented workers should find it relatively easy to get sponsorship with current employers, so the act of leaving the country and reentering would neither discourage their compliance nor come at the expense of legal migrants.

    Day laborers should be required to find long-term sponsoring employers. The presence of tens of thousands of day laborers in the U.S.[10] may seem to pose a challenge to immigration reform, but the day labor market should not be given an exemption. A functioning WORKER-VISIT program would likely motivate the creation of intermediary firms that employ day laborers and connect them with customers in a more formal market that develops along the lines of subcontracting firms that are already active in gardening, house-cleaning, janitorial services, accounting, and night security. Intermediary firms could offer day laborers in teams of variable sizes, allowing the hiring firms to avoid the hassles of sponsoring and documentation paperwork. Skeptics might protest that most subcontracted jobs are routine (even regularly scheduled), whereas day labor is by nature last-minute and unpredictable. However, that is not really true in the aggregate, especially when compared with other last-minute industries like plumbing/flood control or emergency towing. Competitive firms can meet demand with very little slack as long as free-market incentives are in place.

    Migrants and employers who do not comply with the new law should be punished. Migrants who decline to register and are subsequently apprehended inside the U.S. should be punished with more than deportation. Deportation is not a disincentive. The Cornyn-Kyl bill (S. 1438) contains a good proposal along these lines: a 10-year ban on guest worker participation for migrants who do not comply with the new program.[11] Congress should also consider a lifetime prohibition on violators' applying for and receiving U.S. citizenship. The law should introduce steep penalties as well, including prison time and seizure of assets of undocumented workers and their employers. There is no justification for working outside the system, especially a system that allows free entry. The law would establish a date certain after which all migrants in the U.S. must be registered or face these penalties. The lifetime ban on the opportunity to acquire U.S. citizenship would be a strong incentive for undocumented immigrants to enter the process of documentation. Likewise, firm, consistent, enforced penalties against employers would create the proper incentives for compliance.

    All migrants should respect American law and traditions. The requirement to obey all laws is not optional for new citizens and should not be optional for visitors. While we encourage and insist on the primacy of American values for those who join our workforce, we should also remember the full spectrum of values ourselves. The Statue of Liberty reminds us that we are all equal, regardless of ethnicity, origin, or even state of wretchedness, and that America will continue to be a land of opportunity.

    Conclusion

    The century of globalization will see America either descend into timid isolation or affirm its openness. Throughout history, great nations have declined because they built up walls of insularity, but America has been the exception for over a century. It would be a tragedy if America were to turn toward a false sense of security just when China is ascending with openness, Western Europe is declining into isolation, and the real solution is so obvious from our own American heritage.

    Tim Kane, Ph.D., is Bradley Fellow in Labor Policy and Kirk A. Johnson, Ph.D., is a Senior Policy Analyst in the Center for Data Analysis at The Heritage Foundation.

  52. CarlE Avatar
    CarlE

    In 2008 the Census Bureau estimates 30% of the population was Hispanic or of Latino origin. All of them are not illegal or migrant farm workers. All of them are, however, being threatened by this new law. Even someone with a dark tan and dark hair is subject to profiling. What’s next, tattoos on the arms of those here legally so they are more easily tracked? We know where they got that idea.

    Omg, the “Constitutional responsibility to secure the borders” is a federal responsibility. Would you propose states securing their borders against each other? I’ll repeat and earlier proposal that you and your kind be given a place where you can live your xenophobic lives undisturbed. I’ll pitch in to build a big fence around it and man it with guards so that none of us will bother you – or you us.

    Cal writes (or more likely copies and pastes), “Enough is enough. It’s a tired old tactic and it needs to be completely and totally ignored unless actual racism is involved. Mexican citizens are being targeted because they intentionally violated our laws—not the color of their skin. If we find anyone here from Canada or the Czech Republic or anywhere else that shouldn’t be, they need to be dealt with as well.” This ignores that fact that it is actual racism. All those of Latino heritage are being made to fear because they are all subject to random stops by law enforcement (who would prefer to have the trust of all citizens, not automatically building distrust of 30% of them). Those from Canada and the Czech Republic don’t fit the racial profile and therefore are not subject to being detained in the first place.

    Glen writes, “we need a secure national ID card” – again, it won’t prevent the racial profiling this law promotes. I won’t ever have to show mine, and others will be stopped every time they go for a drive.

  53. OMG! Avatar
    OMG!

    CarlE

    The only place racial profiling is a problem is in your mind. The states were in fact granted authority to enforce the federal law. The Arizona law was crafted after Arizona won the decision in the 9th Circuit for enforcing federal law against employers. Get gone with your emotional Bullshit.

  54. Scott Avatar
    Scott

    What part of illegal alien don't you understand?

  55. Good Life Avatar
    Good Life

    What I find amazing is the Alzheimer about who opened the gates and why. The whole point was the break wages and transfer the wealth to the top. Now we have the people who voted for that policy ranting about the immigration that lowered their wages and complaining that even more wealth isn't taken from them and transferred to the top. Then wondering why they are working harder for less.

  56. geoff Avatar

    ArtW "You’d better bet your ass you will carry “your papers” if you cross the border into Mexico."

    Yes, but Matt wrote: “I will be damned if I am going to carry around my birth certificate or a passport to travel in my own country.” There was no mention there of going to Mexico.

  57. Cal Avatar
    Cal

    May I respectfully ask if anyone here has read the Arizona law? I haven’t. Like health care, financial reform, and cap and trade, all of us know only what we read or here on television. That said, my limited understanding is that the only time anyone can be asked about their status is after they have been stopped for a violation such as speeding or running a red light. Even then, they can’t be asked UNLESS the officer has probable cause to ask. If I’m wrong, please correct me with a quote from the law itself or least someone who’s read it and understands it. Spare me the emotionally-driven responses of "We all know that'll work out" and stick to the law, please.I do know Arizona based this law on the federal statutes to make court challenges more difficult.

    Syncopation. I wish you’d contribute to other threads at this same level. It’s a refreshing breath of fresh air.

    I’m with ArtW on two things. The first is the people in question are here illegally. It’s really unfortunate we even have skin color on planet earth but just calling anything and everything that impacts race “racist” fails to address the larger problem. We are facing an epidemic of illegals consuming huge swaths or our economy. I don’t care what they look like or why they’re here. They are here illegally.

    Secondly, I want to see it stopped. This notion that we can’t stop it is absurd. The comparisons are also specious. It’s like giving out free needles “’cause they’re just gonna do it anyway.” If we really wanted to stop illegal immigration we could easily do it.

    Like global warming, there is a very strong political aspect to this issue, too. We have one party that does not want to stop illegal immigration and wants to provide them with legalized status for one reason. It will allow them to vote for that party. It’s the same party that wants statehood for the District of Columbia (and House and Senate representatives), the same for Puerto Rico, to allow convicted felons to vote, and by so doing, change the balance of power. They are turning a blind eye to the tidal wave of crime, resource consumption, and cost in hopes of winning votes. All of it done in the name of "compassion." Sorry, not buying that line.

    We need to stop the flow and then look at solutions for future pathways to citizenship. What we also need is a huge increase in legal immigration to start looking for new qualified doctors and nurses to come here and care for the other tidal wave—the 30 million new patients we’ll absorb in 2014 along with our own aging population. That spigot needs to be opened wide and the other shut off completely.

    Good Life. Whether you even have a point or not is debatable but would you rather point fingers or roll up your sleeves and get it fixed? (I should know better than to even ask because I'll be getting a lecture about providing these illegals with "basic food and shelter" and "human compassion", etc. Oh well…)

    Oh, and I loved Teenster’s attempted tie in of Arizona with the Confederacy! Yes, sir, racism is alive and well in America. Most of it’s in the imagination of the Dupuys of the world, but it is definitely out there.

  58. Dennis Lopez Avatar

    If this is such a great idea then I propose that all northern states apply the same principle to Canadians. Let states like Washington and Idaho, to name a few, stop white caucasians who appear suspiciously illegal and ask for identification. Let Florida deport Cubans and Jaimacians with the proviso that they are able to stop anyone who looks suspicipously illegal. We also have California and Hawaii who also have the continent of Asia to deal with. There is the east coast with Europe nd Africa. The stupidity of these actions should be apparent. Rather than take a knee flex action – what about our politicians coming up with a plan to actually help American business with labor many Americans would not do even if they lose their homes. Arizona is now the "pathetic state" taking us back to the times of George Wallace and segregation. The new KKK are the vigilantes mouthing words like freedom and democracy and patrolling our borders ignoring a few hundred years of American Law without legal authorization. They are the ones destroying our freedom and democracy.

  59. OMG Whut? Avatar
    OMG Whut?

    @ Dennis

    So, I can see that emotions rule here. I would love to see the exact same law enacted in ALL states not just border states. Yes, they can stop a person … for an actual violation of the law. If during that violation check, they reasonably suspect the person is here illegally, then they can ask to see proof otherwise.

    NO: the law does not allow the person to be stopped simply because they look illegal. they must be in the act of other violations

    To quote the law:

    FOR ANY LAWFUL CONTACT MADE BY A LAW ENFORCEMENT OFFICIAL OR AGENCY

    21 OF THIS STATE OR A COUNTY, CITY, TOWN OR OTHER POLITICAL SUBDIVISION OF THIS

    22 STATE WHERE REASONABLE SUSPICION EXISTS THAT THE PERSON IS AN ALIEN WHO IS

    23 UNLAWFULLY PRESENT IN THE UNITED STATES, A REASONABLE ATTEMPT SHALL BE MADE,

    24 WHEN PRACTICABLE, TO DETERMINE THE IMMIGRATION STATUS OF THE PERSON. THE

    25 PERSON'S IMMIGRATION STATUS SHALL BE VERIFIED WITH THE FEDERAL GOVERNMENT

    26 PURSUANT TO 8 UNITED STATES CODE SECTION 1373(c).

    http://www.azleg.gov/legtext/49leg/2r/bills/sb107

    Note: it states Lawful contact

    "That means the officer is already engaged in some detention of an individual because he's violated some other law," says Kris Kobach, a University of Missouri Kansas City Law School professor who helped draft the measure. "The most likely context where this law would come into play is a traffic stop."

    Read more at the Washington Examiner: http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns

    http://www.washingtonexaminer.com/opinion/columns

    Try reading more than liberal / right wing opinions people before deciding.. Think for yourself!!!

  60. ArtW Avatar
    ArtW

    Dennis Lopez: "If this is such a great idea then I propose that all northern states apply the same principle to Canadians. Let states like Washington and Idaho, to name a few, stop white caucasians who appear suspiciously illegal and ask for identification. Let Florida deport Cubans and Jaimacians with the proviso that they are able to stop anyone who looks suspicipously illegal."

    Another one. Geez. Dennis . . . PLEASE , , , read the law before you comment.

    No one can be stopped for 'looking suspiciously illegal'. A person, when stopped for another reason (i.e. traffic violation, arrest, etc.), can then be asked to show proof of citizenship. Is that so much different than being asked for you license, registration and proof of insurance (aka your 'papers') when being pulled over for running a red light?

  61. Cal Avatar
    Cal

    I kind of expected to see at the proponents of the bill tell me they’d read it through at least once. I was trying to do it but I don’t have a law degree and stuck on the first page. I’m going out on a limb here but I’m going to venture that even Carl JD, our resident tax attorney, would have a tough time wading through this without a library of reference material at his disposal. Here’s the text:

    http://banking.senate.gov/public/_files/Chairmans

    Of course, I have NO idea what amendments have been offered or passed since this was posted but I’m 100% sure it’s all really great stuff. Again, I say we ask congress to just pass it right now today without any further discussion. Why? Because I’m sure it’s full of really good ideas and necessary stuff. Do I really to need to know exactly what’s in it? I didn’t with health care (nor did you) but it’s now law. So, let’s just start passing ALL bills this way. Through a few thousand pages together, tell the public they’ll suffer if it doesn’t pass right away and then just pass it!

    The Founders wasted a lot of time creating a bi-cameral legislature with one body to be slow and deliberative with unlimited debate. They could have just written into the constitution to just pass any bill larger than a 1,000 pages without any substantive debate. Then again, we don’t seem to care about that pesky constitution any more, do we?

    And for the umpteenth time the Arizona law only allows law enforcement to question citizenship IF the person stopped for a violation provides REASONABLE CAUSE suspect they are here illegally. NO ONE can just ask "to see your papers." This is the sort of leftwing hyperbole that goes hand-in-glove with the racism and xenophobe comments. It's just not gonna fly this time. It's high time the people restore order if the federal government won't. It AIN'T about race. It's about the rule of law and the huge costs associated with illegal immigrants living here.

  62. Cal Avatar
    Cal

    That's the financial reform bill, NOT the Arizona immigration law. Since we have the same cast of characters in every thread this seemed as good a place as any to plunk it down. Good luck with it. If you can understand it, please translate it into layman's terms for the rest of it.

  63. Cyplesma Avatar
    Cyplesma

    I worked in Juarez for a few months in 2006, All I can say is when I worked on the mexico side of the border, Not only did I have to get and carry my work visa, but the company I worked for also had me sign in and out with my visa number. Most companies in the US also require visitors to sign in and out. This is not illegal. This is done for safety and security reasons.

    That work visa also cost me 20.00 a month. I don't know how much a work visa costs for a non us citizen to work here, but really let's face it. those that are crossing our borders today are doing it mainly to run drugs into this country. Sure some are breaking and entering our country for other reasons, but those who break and enter illegally need to be punished, otherwise why have any laws at all?

    Those who believe that reasonable suspicion of wrong doing is racist where were your complaints when this attitude was set precedent in the 60's/70's with arresting drugs related crimes in this country by citizens?

    Az governor got it right, detain, investigate, and arrest if needed. Anybody playing the racist card should be arrested for aiding these criminals breaking and entering into our country. There are ways and means to work/live here legally. And yes anybody who hires these illegals with the intent on using them and cheap labor (aka slaves) also need to be punished.

    I say make AZ governor President!

  64. Cyplesma Avatar
    Cyplesma

    If you still have ideas of whining for those here illegal, give this a read.

    http://michiganconservatives.wordpress.com/2010/0

    http://michiganconservatives.wordpress.com/2010/0

  65. Jack Sprat Avatar
    Jack Sprat

    I'd settle for the immigration policy Mexico has on it's souther border, except no raping, robbing, beating, blackmailing and then jailing the "illegals".

  66. Jack Sprat Avatar
    Jack Sprat

    Dennis Lopez

    Dennis, I'm all for it, especially the Canadians, from the lackey state of Canadia.

  67. Jack Sprat Avatar
    Jack Sprat

    Syncopation

    “I was told that I could not work for anyone because I was not a Canadian citizen. I had to either be hired by an American company that had a presence in Canada, or I had to be a Canadian citizen.”

    Apparently you were doing a job Canadians wouldn’t do.

    I think one other time you were on the same side of an “argument”, you must be getting smarter. Although, there are many here that have a legitimate position of consideration, in the military it’s called “circumstances of mitigation and consideration” or some such. I don’t think any one has ever expressed a “get the hell out of dodge” approach, but many Mexican nationals seem to be “going home” they will be missed, they are good decent people for the most part, but nothing good comes from the breaking of laws to get what you want, there are unfortunately many that are being used as paid slaves with few rights. The law that was broken by using someone’s social security number is a felony, and forged documents are serious crimes, one piled on top of others. As a matter of security we simply can’t legalize 20% of Mexico’s population when many if not most still have an allegiance to Mexico, Rome tried that, didn’t work out too well for them either. Europe is having the same troubles with their illegal alien problems, at any given time you can read an article of the troubles that will become more violent as the economies start succumbing to the errors of socializing populations with ever increasing entitlements, like Phoenix having to close 3 hospitals because of the abusive use of the emergency rooms by “undocumented workers”. As America’s economy suffers the misguided programs to buy votes voters are waking up to what a “socialist heaven” looks like, stagnant economy, high unemployment, rising costs on goods, higher taxes, more state, city and county governments and a Federal government whose average salary is nearly twice that of the private sector and 3-4 times that of the working poor, producing nothing but layer upon layer of bureaucracy all producing nothing.

  68. mole Avatar
    mole

    Jack – It's pointless to compare the Mexican situation to your norther boarder with Canada. You could open the borders wide, and there would be no flood of Canadians heading south; in fact, I would bet the flow would be more the other way. We have a longer life expectancy than Americans, a lower infant and maternal mortality rate, (mostly due to our excellent heath care system), and a higher standard of living. We also tend to be (at least on average) less likely to hurl insults at other nationalities. When my American friends visit me, they express envy for what we have. When I visit them, I express admiration for the U.S., but I breathe a sigh of relief when I return to the true land of the free.

  69. Jack Sprat Avatar
    Jack Sprat

    mole

    Please forgive me but the friends that I have that are "Canadian", were smart enough to become American citizens and served our/their country with distinction and honor. We are as "impressed" with your socialism as you are with our "chaos". Oddly, I see nothing "free" in the land of socialism. The boards "geoff" is a "East German geoff, the Canadian professer" who only derides America, we, in a "neighborly" way return the favor, what we have learned from him is pretty much nothing, he has neither historical facts correct, nor any understanding of the politics of America.

    But he, like you, is very proud of all things Canadian, I do try to differentiate the difference of our “Where in the World is Waldo” self described “Canadian” as being from the little country of Canadia, I try not to look through the single prism of his sheer ignorance as representative of anything more than his opinion. I love the Red Green Show, Corner Gas and Anne of Green Gables other than that I can get all of the mosquitoes and deer flies in Minnesota, Michigan and Rocky Mountains.

    Please keep the health care system you’re so proud of, at the expense of your supreme court finding that the Quebec Province version of it was unconstitutional and it “killed people” because it offered no third party insurance offering, the only thing that kept the decision from being a general indictment against the entire system was that the cases in point were found in a judgment of a 3 to 3 decision. If your rights being given to you by man, who can just as easily take them away, good for you, we through off the shackles of the “Crown” and subservience to it over two hundred years ago. With only 34 million population (a population of illegal aliens we may well be reaching) you can do things we can’t, and many of the things you do we wisely wouldn’t.

    Trust me, we welcome any guest from any where in the world, more people want to come here than any other country in the world, Canada cannot say the same, but as Mark Twain said, “Fish and guests both start stinking after three days”. I was being sarcastic when I said the illegal emigration on the northern boarder, as I understand it, it is only serious if an American is “one walleye” over the limit and then they get fined and have everything they own confiscated. All we ask is that you keep the terrorists up there where their chance of hurting large population centers is far less.

    Have a great day and smile. : )

  70. Mate Avatar
    Mate

    I hope the new law is enforced in Arizona and they get rid of every last illegal immigrant. Then we can all sit down and enjoy watching the Arizonians hire American-born Arizonians to hand-pick cotton. Of course, paying those employees the federally mandated minimum wage, benefits, allowing them to join unions, sue, take holidays… sure Wal-Mart (the state's largest employer, how's that for a booming state) will be backing this law, since they are all for workers' welfare…

  71. Syncopation Avatar
    Syncopation

    Mole, ignore Jack. Most of us in the US aren't quite as offensive and hateful. But the US doesn't outlaw these things, so we still have things like the KKK, the Westboro Baptist Church and… individuals like Jack. It's freedom, but that doesn't mean it doesn't have it's ugly side.

    I've spent a great deal of time in Canada in my life and I know for a FACT that it is nothing like Jack describes. He just overloads on Limbaugh and Hannity and Beck and Palin until he explodes. Unfortunately he explodes here, in public. I think of him as sort of a right wing exhibitionist.

  72. Steve Avatar
    Steve

    We seem to forget the millions of tax dollars used to provide the illegals with "free" healthcare, education, and free school lunches that federal law demands that each child recieves 2 meals every school day. We the public pay for all of that.

  73. Jack Sprat Avatar
    Jack Sprat

    "Most of us in the US aren’t quite as offensive and hateful"

    This wouldn't be you though. I rather liked the difference between the "Tea-Party" people cleaning up their own litter and sitting around singing songs and the pro illegal immigrant mob breaking windows and destroying property (the last tally I heard was $10,000 to $20,000 dollars in damage, but what the heck they were probably just rich B-tards anyway), kind of fits in with your insipid ramblings of…. well most anything.

    Oddly the guy who bit off the elderly gentleman’s finger was a “purple shirted kkk” member of SEIU, and don’t worry, no matter how stupid and anal you are, you’ll never out do lil’ “g” he is in a classless all his own.

  74. greatmama Avatar
    greatmama

    In my opinion the people of Arizona to do what they think right. They are legal American citizens. I think the new law is maybe not tough enough. The Obama newspapers do not seem to be informed on the details of the bill, or they choose not to listen. The former governor (who is in Obama's cabinet) requested Federal help as she wrote the goverment requesting aid from the Federal goverment. Arizona's new governor did the same thing. I watched her being interviewed on Fox news (I think) and it was an excellent interview. She knows what Arizona needs and she is trying to get it, If the feds don't do it, then she feels that Arizona should not blamed for doing it.

    Way to go, Arizona citizens, I'm with you, and good luck.

    We even have illegals in Illinois.

    Greatmama

  75. CarlE Avatar
    CarlE

    Dave, what we need is MORE examples like the ONE in Iowa. If there are no jobs, people won’t take dangerous chances to get them. If they would pay a living wage they would have more applicants for open positions. Shut down every Tyson plant that has illegal immigrants and the others will all get the message.

    I noticed a couple of pieces of news over the weekend that indicated many illegal immigrants, as well as legal immigrants that don’t want to constantly be hassled, are leaving Aryanzona for other states. Are they gonna patrol their borders to prevent this?

  76. Good Life Avatar
    Good Life

    The whole point of importing workers was and is to lower wages, thereby transferring the wealth to the top where it would then be used to create more jobs and with the greater number of jobs the economy would grow and the workers would then get more money. Then the wages could be lowered again to transfer even more wealth to the top, where it would be used to create even more jobs.—–That is a summary of the tinkle-down theory.

    What happened? Those slaughtering plants in Iowa, Nebraska, Kansas, etc. payed $18/hr 30 years ago, along with full union benefits. They had no trouble finding workers. With the flood of workers, (labor like all else is supply and demand) the wages dropped until today the same plant pays about $8/hr. And for some strange reason they can argue that Americans simply won't take the jobs so the MUST import labor. It doesn't occur to them that they could raise wages to attract American workers. I'll bet anyone everything I have that if they offered jobs at the $18/hr they paid 30 years ago (even without adjusting for inflation or offering benefits) they wouldn't have enough paper to print off all of the American applications.

    This whole thing was and is the policy of the US government based on the way tinkle-down is supposed to work. This problem was no accident. It was purposely planned. And until labor has the clout of Wall Street it will be talked to death but not changed.

  77. geoff Avatar

    Good Life: "tinkle down" is all part of that great "race to the bottom."

  78. Buddy Avatar
    Buddy

    Oh boy, who tied your panties in a knot? When is it racism or any other …ism to enforce the law?!

  79. Edv Avatar
    Edv

    Living near a town with LOTS of illegals I can say for a fact that there are lots of break-ins, shootings, stabbings and so far over a dozen rapes of UNDERAGE girls reported so far. Oh, and the town only has about 15,000 residents. All the perpetrators have been illegals, and that's a fact. A friend of mine had to close his little grocery store because of all the thefts and lack of Police help. Every time they caught the criminals, they were illegals and gone by the time Court came about.

    Last year there were over 500 illegals arrested at the local Beef Processing Plant, ALL were members of UFCW (United Food and Commercial Workers Union) and ALL had stolen ID's. Also there were 5 Union Reps arrested for the same reasons, Illegal aliens and stolen ID's.

    Lastly, I read today that a Somali Al-Qaeda Chief has entered this country Illegally through TEXAS with other Somali Al-Qaeda members already here. The local Beef Plant here has been hiring Somali's for the past two years.

    Yet, Janet Napolitano is still preaching that the "terrorists" are the Tea Party people. This is sick. OPEN YOUR EYES Napolitano. What will it take for the idiots now in charge to open their eyes?

  80. geoff Avatar

    Edv: did they fine the people running your local Beef Processing Plant? After all, someone must have been looking the other way when "over 500 illegals" were working there? And how long did it take them to hire "over 500" replacement illegals?

  81. Pat, Boston, MA Avatar
    Pat, Boston, MA

    Completely agree with AZ's take on situation of illegals and partially legal's privilege to enter U.S. and disregard laws that are meant to protect people and property of the U.S.

    Most countries have similar laws which Americans are expected to honor as well.

    This is no surprise to most.

    Allowing companies to hire illegals or green card legals or H1B legals to do their dirty work while leaving citizens holding the disasters without recourse is an unusually callous ploy that has begun to be a common theme in America in the attitude of predatory business. It cannot, and should not be allowed but the solution is not confined to the illegals/partial legals alone and involves penalties upon those companies who would use them for that unlawful purpose.

    Making foreigners innocent instrumentalists is the nation's newest wrinkle in gang/group crimes.

    For that reason, many in America are wise enough to have foresight of the problems around the bend if they are not addressed.

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